Enough of the measuring though, yesterday morning I was able to get out and shoot some groups.
Conditions were a bit foggy, enough to cause some degree of difficulty in aiming on a few shots. And because it was only about degrees out and I was shooting kind of st, I had some mirage coming off the barrel and suppressor.
Many . shooters have long considered the gr. Gold that Todd Kindler of the Woodchuck Den used to make as the bullet for coyote with large capacity .s. The combination of high BC, accuracy and terminal performance on coyote may be unmatched. My . Predator, which has been my main squeeze on stand since I had it built over a dozen years ago, was built around the gr. Gold. And I have had great success with that rifle and the Gold on coyote over the years, accounting for over coyote killed.
I shot the groups off of a folding le, not a solid concrete bench. After many years shooting off this le Im confident that I can shoot consistently almost as good off of it as a solid bench. But, in truth, it really is only almost as good. A solid bench likely would have sucked the groups up just a tiny bit.
Note too, that for each dimension I measured, the new Golds have more variation, especially in weight and ogive length.
I chose just ten random bullets from my box of old stock WCD Golds and ten bullets from the new box of Texas Golds. As you can see in the chart above, the new Golds weigh about . grain more than the old ones. And the ogives are about . longer. And, the diameter is about . smaller than the old ones too.
I shot only two, five shot groups of each bullet. Alternating, first WCD, then Texas, WCD and Texas. As you can see, the old WCD Golds turned in groups of . and ., for a . average. The Texas Golds turned in groups of . and . for a . average. The old . Predator is barely hanging on to / MOA by the skin of its teeth
Thanks for the report on your testing Dave.I will surely call and order some.
Great write up Dave. Good to see the Golds are back. Ive only got a couple boxes of the Kindler left for my Tactical. I will definitely be placing an order.
Good writeup Dave. I am looking forward to trying a grain bullet in my hh. Thanks for the insights. Burt
The . caliber Gold bullet from the Woodchuck Den has been considered the best . caliber coyote bullet made. But they have not been available for several years. Now, a new maker is using the same dies and the same jackets. I compare the new Golds to the old Golds to see how they measure and shoot.
To order these new Golds, give Montana a call at . He ships st! He has other weight Golds besides the s and says hell have .s online soon as well. If there is a particular . caliber bullet you wish you could have, it might be worth putting a bug in his ear. I did grin.
The day the new bullets arrived I sat down to compare the new Golds to the old Woodchuck Den Golds. I noted some differences in ogive length, weight and diameter. See chart below for details.
I wasnt sure what to call the new Golds. Because the maker is in Texas, I started calling them Texas Golds. But when the bullets arrived, the sender was listed as Montana Mize. So I thought maybe they should be called Montana Golds? I asked Montana what he calls them. He said that the name Texas Golds seems to have stuck, so Texas Golds it is!
For test loads I used the same lot of brass, primers and powder and loaded up the Texas Golds and some of the old Golds with the same load I have been using since the rifle was new. Because the ogives of the new Golds are . longer than the old Golds I have, to keep the relationship to the lands the same, I adjusted the seating die . deeper on the new Golds. Comparator measurements of the two after loading are within . of each other.
Slow coyote calling this time of year!
More shooting would certainly be more definitive. Ill leave it up to you the reader to draw your own conclusions, or lack of conclusion. Ive made mine.
Speaking of coyote hunting Thats another test, for another day. How well will these new Texas Golds kill, compared to the old ones. Personally, given that I know they are made from the same jackets, core material and from the same dies, I am highly confident that theyll kill just the same. Ill report back on that, when Ive killed enough coyote with them to form a solid conclusion but Im expecting them to perform superbly on called coyote, just like the originals.
Do they shoot good enough? For coyote hunting, Id certainly say so. And, lets not forget, this is a new bullet maker. What I see in the dimensional and group data, is room for improvement. After talking to Montana again this morning, it sounds like he was already way ahead of me on this he mentioned tightening up his process and dimensions before I even brought it up. Im betting any bullets he ships today, are even better than the ones tested here. Ill be buying more of them, for sure.
Montana is a good friend and he is truly trying to build a better product for us all. Hes in this for the long haul.
Sounds good Burt. I think Montana mentioned he was going to be working with the s in a .HH himself. I might have to give them a try in my Mach IV.
Good information Dave! I look forward to seeing how they do on coyotes!
Thanks! And yup, the twist is good for the s.
The Nagels are some great bullets too. Kill coyote very well!
Frankly, given the variations in ogive, weight and diameter measured, I didnt expect them to shoot as well as the old ones. But they shot pretty well, just the same.
Thanks Chad! Happy to see you stopping by, appreciate the comment!
My pleasure Matt! Just hope I can get a few coyotes with them before I hang it up for the season.
Filed under. Predator, Golds,Coyote Bullets
The chrony data was interesting, as the new bullets averaged fps slower than the old ones. The differences in weight and diameter perhaps?
Excellent information and article. You have really helped Montana with your evaluations to improve his process and quality of future bullets which will help all of us.
So, I tell you all of this in order to empha that these groups should not be construed in any way, shape or form, as an attempt to find the accuracy potential of these bullets. I am absolutely certain that a more accurate rifle, a better group shooter, a more solid bench will yield smaller groups. Im not a bench rest shooter and my . Predator is a sporter weight hunting rifle, not a benchrest rifle.
Montana Mize, of Hamilton, Texas now owns the original dies, along with a good supply of the long . J jackets needed to make the Golds and is in full production. Note Montana is not the guy who originally bought the dies from Todd Kindler. So, what you may have heard about the guy that bought them originally, does not apply to the new owner!
A couple more things worth mentioning. The new Golds had the same POI as the old ones a good thing if I want to switch between them. Also, after shooting the groups, I strapped the Magnetospeed on and ran four rounds of each bullet for chrony data. The eight shots formed a nice round group measuring ., not too shabby and again showing exactly the same POI.
Me too Eric! Thanks for stopping by, appreciate it!
Im also very interested in the .s too. A grain hollow point with a good B.C will be great for my . Ruger.
Until, that is, just a few weeks ago. The dies along with a supply of J jackets of the correct length for the Golds are back in production and the Gold is available again!
In the process of loading my last WD BTs over grains of Varget in the . Remington.
Two groups of each, honestly, isnt enough data to prove anything. But, with this rifle, since new, I have striven to keep punching and load work to an absolute minimum. After a little bit of load work when new, this rifle has scarcely touched in the years since, except for very occasional zero checks. Its for killing coyote, plain pure and . The barrel life on a hot rod like the . Predator is short. I intend that when this barrel is done, its short life will have been well lived, devoted to killing coyote. This one has . erosion already and definitely isnt as accurate as it once was.
I have never been a really good group shooter either. Competent, but no more than competent.
Id like to see a really sleek, tough, gr. boat tail in . caliber. Something to kill coyote as well or better than the Berger but with much better BC!
The only thing I was trying to find out, was how these bullets shoot compared to the old bullets, in this particular hunting rifle. Using the exact same load. Nothing more!
So, as I said, I was only interested in seeing how the new bullets shot, with the exact same load, compared to the new ones. In this short test, they didnt shoot quite as good. But pretty close!
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But a few years ago, Todd stopped his ntastic bullets. He sold his dies and since then, there have been no more Golds. Guys regularly come on the predator hunting forums asking where to get them, to be met with the same sad answer every time, that the Gold had been relegated to unobtanium status.
By the way that Leupold .x in my opinion is the ideal western scope .
BTW Great Blog Dave. Really fun to read your stuff you are a wealth of knowledge
I have only one rifle I intend to use these bullets in, so all I wanted to know is how these new bullets shoot in my . Predator compared to the old ones. With just under , rounds through the bore and about . of throat erosion, this rifle has definitely lost a step and no longer has the guilt edged accuracy it had when new. About a year ago I added a Thunder Beast Ultra . suppressor to the rifle, all groups were shot suppressed. Scope is a Leupold ..
At this point, Ill mention that I have adjusted the seating depth of my load out over the years to follow the lands. But, Im out of neck. There is well less than a caliber of bullet shank in the neck. They are as long as Im comforle them for field use. Being able to seat the new ones . deeper didnt hurt my feelings one bit.
Posted inAccuracy,Coyote Hunting,Guns,Reloading,Varmint Hunting
Nice write up on the Goldsstill shooting Nagels but Im going to grab some of these to try.goldsGolds Are Back!